Comments on: Deathly Hallows Discussion Point #7: The Rubedo

By: Tinuvielas

Tinuvielas — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:40:37 +0000

I recently read John’s “Deathly Hallows Lectures” while at the same time
rereading DH – something to be highly recommend not only because the former is a total eye-opener (pun intended…), but also because reading the two texts practically side by side helps one see what to look for. For instance, the typical features that point to the respective Nigredo, Albedo and Rubedo-stages in the novel.

While John’s comments on the Nigredo and Albedo stages in DH were totally on spot for me, I wasn’t entirely convinced of his identification of the respective Rubedo-features in the last stage of DH (not to be confused with his comments on DH as Rubedo of the series!). I rather thought, for instance, that the moment when Ron and Hermione kissed in the presence of all that death and fighting around them made for a very nice alchemical wedding, even if they didn’t actually “marry” in that precise moment. But they do finally recognize each other and become “one flesh” pretty obviously, with Ron lifting Hermione up etc, and Harry standing next to them and looking on.

I also noticed two other alchemical features that I’m not sure have been mentioned in the book or on the site so far (though I may have overlooked them):

a) the fact that it is said (in “The Forest Again”) that Harry felt like his soul was “oddly disconnected” from his body. This ties in perfectly with the idea of the soul leaving the Hermaphrodite body and coming back when it is cleaned, though I’m not sure what the cleaning is – Hagrid’s big, splashy tears are perhaps a bit late for that, seeing as Harry is already back in his body?

b) the fact that Voldemort and Harry move in a “perfect circle” during their final confrontation when Harry has, in John’s words, “acchieved the center”, their spells meeting in a flash of gold in the middle – for isn’t the circle the symbol of perfection and quintessence, of unity and transcendence, of the wheel having turned, and the oppositions having been overcome?

I hope these observations may be of some interest even though the discussion has by now moved on to (several) other topics… wish I had more time to follow all that

By: Helen

Helen — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:51:47 +0000

It may be that while Slytherin can only have one heir (because he counted inheritance by blood), Gryffindor can have many, because he counted inheritance by spirit– any courageous scion of his house can wield his sword at need. Harry, Ron and Neville each used it, after all. The fact that Dumbledore had the sword, and used it (on the ring Horcrux), along with his griffin door knocker and companionship with Fawkes, suggests that he too was one of Gryffindor’s heirs.

By: cigar95

cigar95 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 00:05:44 +0000

I took the concluding chapter to tell us that Neville was the Heir of Gryffindor.

As for Harry, it looks like he’s the Heir of Peverell.

By: Fantasylover

Fantasylover — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:26:45 +0000

Did we ever find out who the heir of Gryffindor is?
Also, it might be really dumb, but I just noticed that Fred’s name has the word “red” in it. Did anyone else notice that?

By: clio

clio — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:20:14 +0000

Elkhound – Yeah, you’re right that we didn’t see a complete reconciliation between Gryffindor and Slytherin. But let’s not underestimate the degree of reconciliation that DID happen! First of all, that brief nod of acknowledgement between fathers Harry and Draco on the train platform spoke volumes. Sure, they probably won’t be doing fishing trips together, but even so. Also, the jokes Ron makes to his daughter about not getting too friendly with Draco’s son – I think that speaks volumes, too. The idea of a Weasley growing up to marry a Malfoy – it’s no longer a horrifying idea, but an amusing one!

By: Arabella Figg

Arabella Figg — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:36:55 +0000

First, I need to fix a goof: Hermione’s bridesmaid dress was lilac and Ginny’s was gold.

Second: re Elkhound’s comments. I think we have to see Draco and Narcissa being “on the good side” by not giving Harry away at the Malfoy mansion and when Harry returns and hides under the cloak. True, they were out for themselves, but they were on the side of Harry’s success at freeing them from LV. And we mustn’t forget Severus Snape, Slytherin, who died in service to Harry. I don’t neglect Dobby and Kreacher, former Slytherin house elves, either. Nor Sirius Black, Gryffindor from Slytherin family.

I, too, had hoped for more Slytherin/Gryffindor resolution, but I think that’s a few generations down the road. It’s unrealistic to expect this centuries-old predjudice to die down immediately. The fact that Harry and Draco are on apparently cordial, if not friendly terms, says a lot.

Gads, Luscious BadBoy is digging in the flower pots again…

By: Elkhound

Elkhound — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:22:20 +0000

I don’t see how the Griffyndor/Slytherin schism was healed. All the Slytherins (except for Prof. Slughorn) left Hogwarts and either fought for the Death Eaters or remained neutral. It was the only House not represented in the reconstituted Dumbledore’s Army. In the Epilogue we still see kids from the ‘good’ families hoping that they won’t be Sorted into Slytherin. (Harry’s whispered comment that Severus Snape was a very brave man doesn’t really cut it.)

By: Helen

Helen — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 07:42:39 +0000

My nomination for a key rubedo moment is when Harry dug Dobby’s grave, and finally and fully committed himself to the destruction of the Horcruxes, refusing the temptation of personal power offered by the Hallows. It is said, a couple of times, that the soil in which Dobby’s grave was dug is red.

And for those fans of chiastic structure, I noticed that when Xenophilus (“Lover of the Strange?”) Lovegood first mentions the Deathly Hallows, it is almost exactly halfway through the book: p. 404 of 759 pages.

By: Stoffel Francke

Stoffel Francke — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:53:02 +0000

In addition to Seamus Clay´s remarks about the rubedo-motif in Gryffindor´s sword: almost at the end, just before the climax, we read on p. 587: “In one swift, fluid motion Neville broke free of the Body-Bind-Curse upon him; the flaming Hat fell off him and he drew from its depts something silver, with a glittering, rubied handle…” I think the ruby-detail was not mentioned without a reason.
Thank you for all the nice discussions.

By: elise

elise — Sun, 29 Jul 2007 02:04:04 +0000

FWIW, here’s my guess about the epilogue being 19 years later. Albus Severus is 11, because it’s his first year at Hogwarts. This means he was born 8 years after the close of the story, and 8 is often associated with “new beginnings.” This may signify the time at which Harry was finally able to process or come to terms with everything about Snape, and could go so far as to admire the man independently of the fact that the man despised him, and name his son after him.