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	<title>Comments on: On Critical Reception of Harry Potter and Twilight Part 7: What the Critics missed (A: Surface)</title>
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	<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/</link>
	<description>Thoughts for the Serious Reader of Harry Potter</description>
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		<title>By: Breaking Dawn Movie Countdown Continues!</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-15317</link>
		<dc:creator>Breaking Dawn Movie Countdown Continues!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 03:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] release Friday! Don&#8217;t forget to let us know if there are other posts you&#8217;d like to see! Part 7 Part 8 Part [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] release Friday! Don&#8217;t forget to let us know if there are other posts you&#8217;d like to see! Part 7 Part 8 Part [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lily Luna</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5351</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily Luna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry to dredge up an old topic.  I just finished reading Twilight and New Moon for the first time.  Both books were very gripping, extreme page-turners, and well written, which I didn&#039;t expect.  Regarding the cover art for Twilight with the woman holding the apple:  in addition to the interpretation offered above, of it symbolizing the Garden of Eden, man&#039;s downfall, original sin, the temptation of knowledge, it seemed to me symbolize the physical temptation of biting.  What do you do with a juicy, tempting apple? You sink your teeth into it, give it a big bite, just like what Edward longs to do to Bella&#039;s neck, but must will himself not to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to dredge up an old topic.  I just finished reading Twilight and New Moon for the first time.  Both books were very gripping, extreme page-turners, and well written, which I didn&#8217;t expect.  Regarding the cover art for Twilight with the woman holding the apple:  in addition to the interpretation offered above, of it symbolizing the Garden of Eden, man&#8217;s downfall, original sin, the temptation of knowledge, it seemed to me symbolize the physical temptation of biting.  What do you do with a juicy, tempting apple? You sink your teeth into it, give it a big bite, just like what Edward longs to do to Bella&#8217;s neck, but must will himself not to.</p>
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		<title>By: juliababyjen</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5350</link>
		<dc:creator>juliababyjen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5350</guid>
		<description>Good post, John!  It&#039;s amazing how people only see what they want to see, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, John!  It&#8217;s amazing how people only see what they want to see, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Lily Luna</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5349</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily Luna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5349</guid>
		<description>Wasnn&#039;t quite sure where to post this comment, but thought I&#039;d put it here as it relates (loosely) to the comparison of Twilight and Harry Potter, though not to the specific topic of Part 7 -- After reading all of John&#039;s postings comparing Twilight and Harry Potter, I was highly amused this morning to catch part of/be told of two back-to-back episodes of The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy (on Cartoon Network): one called &quot;Dracula Must Die,&quot; spoofing Dracula and the movie Romeo Must Die, and the second &quot;Nigel Planter &amp; the Order of the Peanuts,&quot; spoofing our favorite boy with a scar.  The part of Dracula Must Die that I caught was extremely funny and my daughter described Larry Planter to me and it sounded very funny, too.  Interesting juxtaposition of episodes, and in fact they were sequential episodes when originally produced; both are from season 7 (2007), episodes 11 (Dracula) and 12 (Nigel Planter).  They&#039;re on again today at 3:30 and 4:00 EST but that will probably have passed by the time this is posted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasnn&#8217;t quite sure where to post this comment, but thought I&#8217;d put it here as it relates (loosely) to the comparison of Twilight and Harry Potter, though not to the specific topic of Part 7 &#8212; After reading all of John&#8217;s postings comparing Twilight and Harry Potter, I was highly amused this morning to catch part of/be told of two back-to-back episodes of The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy (on Cartoon Network): one called &#8220;Dracula Must Die,&#8221; spoofing Dracula and the movie Romeo Must Die, and the second &#8220;Nigel Planter &amp; the Order of the Peanuts,&#8221; spoofing our favorite boy with a scar.  The part of Dracula Must Die that I caught was extremely funny and my daughter described Larry Planter to me and it sounded very funny, too.  Interesting juxtaposition of episodes, and in fact they were sequential episodes when originally produced; both are from season 7 (2007), episodes 11 (Dracula) and 12 (Nigel Planter).  They&#8217;re on again today at 3:30 and 4:00 EST but that will probably have passed by the time this is posted.</p>
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		<title>By: Arabella Figg</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5348</link>
		<dc:creator>Arabella Figg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5348</guid>
		<description>Thank you LibraryLily. I&#039;m hesitant to comment on this again after John&#039;s response, but I was referring to the modernistic gnosticism of the faith in which I was &quot;spiritually raised,&quot; in which the body has been so irredeemably ruined by sin in the Garden, that it is merely a hindering burden to be gladly shed. I wasn&#039;t referring to *indulging* our physicality (too much of that!), but embracing, not denying, its importance and connectedness to our wholeness--spirit, mind and body. I feel one of Twilight&#039;s below-surface meanings may be about the balance of these three, and how none can be separated or demeaned as unnecessary and &quot;lesser.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you LibraryLily. I&#8217;m hesitant to comment on this again after John&#8217;s response, but I was referring to the modernistic gnosticism of the faith in which I was &#8220;spiritually raised,&#8221; in which the body has been so irredeemably ruined by sin in the Garden, that it is merely a hindering burden to be gladly shed. I wasn&#8217;t referring to *indulging* our physicality (too much of that!), but embracing, not denying, its importance and connectedness to our wholeness&#8211;spirit, mind and body. I feel one of Twilight&#8217;s below-surface meanings may be about the balance of these three, and how none can be separated or demeaned as unnecessary and &#8220;lesser.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: LibraryLily</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5347</link>
		<dc:creator>LibraryLily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 06:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5347</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Figg, you can tell me if I&#039;m misapprehending--but I had something of a similar experience, I think. The separation of the physical and spiritual realms, excluding the possible influence of one upon the other, must have come into my Christianity through modernism somehow. I&#039;m not sure. I had failed--not to focus enough on the body, but to focus on the possibility of effects of body upon spirit and vice versa. For me the understanding came in discovering the Catholic understanding of the sacraments: I finally realized that physical and spiritual work together and strongly affect each other.

With that understanding, then, I&#039;m thoroughly interested to hear how Meyer&#039;s use of harlequin elements might be done for allegorical purposes. I&#039;ll watch for that information in post number 9, John.

The rewriting of the Genesis tale fascinates me. I missed it, of course, but now that I think about it, it&#039;s totally intriguing. Bella&#039;s forcing her way into a knowledge that Edward tries to keep from her, a knowledge much too great for her; the deadly consequences of that knowledge, which she faces again and again, and the resolution through loving, self-sacrificial death--wow. I&#039;ll have to think through that more.

Interestingly, they integrated the first book&#039;s cover into the movie. Bella knocks an apple off a cafeteria buffet, and it bounces off Edward&#039;s foot; he catches it and holds it out to her in cupped hands.

I can understand the frustration of those who are exasperated by our culture&#039;s taste for the informal voice and the less-than-magisterial, even though I can only agree with it to a point. It reminds me of church debates (which I&#039;ve been around numerous times, having been involved in church music for many years) over hymns played on organ and praise choruses played on the guitar. &lt;i&gt;All Creatures of our God and King&lt;/i&gt;, played on the pipe organ with the stops pulled out, is sublime--the earth loses its gravity and I feel like I can touch heaven listening to that. But &lt;i&gt;Here I am to Worship&lt;/i&gt;, guitar strumming alongside the highly repetitive melody, is almost as likely to bring tears to my eyes; it&#039;s comforting, and heaven seems to reach down and softly touch the earth. Nobody claims that the latter is constructed on principles as high as that of the former, but that lowliness doesn&#039;t make it meaningless or unworthy.

The polarization is of the masculine and feminine--which might also help explain why academic men so often snub the work of women--and the two were made for union.

We just need a little alchemy. Heh. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Figg, you can tell me if I&#8217;m misapprehending&#8211;but I had something of a similar experience, I think. The separation of the physical and spiritual realms, excluding the possible influence of one upon the other, must have come into my Christianity through modernism somehow. I&#8217;m not sure. I had failed&#8211;not to focus enough on the body, but to focus on the possibility of effects of body upon spirit and vice versa. For me the understanding came in discovering the Catholic understanding of the sacraments: I finally realized that physical and spiritual work together and strongly affect each other.</p>
<p>With that understanding, then, I&#8217;m thoroughly interested to hear how Meyer&#8217;s use of harlequin elements might be done for allegorical purposes. I&#8217;ll watch for that information in post number 9, John.</p>
<p>The rewriting of the Genesis tale fascinates me. I missed it, of course, but now that I think about it, it&#8217;s totally intriguing. Bella&#8217;s forcing her way into a knowledge that Edward tries to keep from her, a knowledge much too great for her; the deadly consequences of that knowledge, which she faces again and again, and the resolution through loving, self-sacrificial death&#8211;wow. I&#8217;ll have to think through that more.</p>
<p>Interestingly, they integrated the first book&#8217;s cover into the movie. Bella knocks an apple off a cafeteria buffet, and it bounces off Edward&#8217;s foot; he catches it and holds it out to her in cupped hands.</p>
<p>I can understand the frustration of those who are exasperated by our culture&#8217;s taste for the informal voice and the less-than-magisterial, even though I can only agree with it to a point. It reminds me of church debates (which I&#8217;ve been around numerous times, having been involved in church music for many years) over hymns played on organ and praise choruses played on the guitar. <i>All Creatures of our God and King</i>, played on the pipe organ with the stops pulled out, is sublime&#8211;the earth loses its gravity and I feel like I can touch heaven listening to that. But <i>Here I am to Worship</i>, guitar strumming alongside the highly repetitive melody, is almost as likely to bring tears to my eyes; it&#8217;s comforting, and heaven seems to reach down and softly touch the earth. Nobody claims that the latter is constructed on principles as high as that of the former, but that lowliness doesn&#8217;t make it meaningless or unworthy.</p>
<p>The polarization is of the masculine and feminine&#8211;which might also help explain why academic men so often snub the work of women&#8211;and the two were made for union.</p>
<p>We just need a little alchemy. Heh. <img src='http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lily Luna</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5346</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily Luna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5346</guid>
		<description>Connecting Mrs. Figg&#039;s idea of the perfection of the body to Harry Potter, I would point out that in The Forest Again and King&#039;s Cross (Deathly Hallows) the souls of Lily, James, Sirius, Lupin, and Dumbledore each appear to Harry in some idealized physical form.  Lily and James presumably look rather as they did when they died at age 21.  Sirius looks as he did before he was sent to Azkaban (at the same age) and Lupin also looks years younger without the gray in his hair and the lines in his face.  Dumbledore on the other hand appears as an old, silver-haired man, but with a whole, unblemished arm.  These images would seem to be what each individually desired to look like.  In the case of Lily, James, Sirius, and Lupin, it was how they appeared as young adults, not as teenagers or as middle aged men.  Dumbledore, however, viewed his youth with shame and regret.  He preferred to look as he did as a wise and venerated old man, fighting against evil, before his final act of folly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Connecting Mrs. Figg&#8217;s idea of the perfection of the body to Harry Potter, I would point out that in The Forest Again and King&#8217;s Cross (Deathly Hallows) the souls of Lily, James, Sirius, Lupin, and Dumbledore each appear to Harry in some idealized physical form.  Lily and James presumably look rather as they did when they died at age 21.  Sirius looks as he did before he was sent to Azkaban (at the same age) and Lupin also looks years younger without the gray in his hair and the lines in his face.  Dumbledore on the other hand appears as an old, silver-haired man, but with a whole, unblemished arm.  These images would seem to be what each individually desired to look like.  In the case of Lily, James, Sirius, and Lupin, it was how they appeared as young adults, not as teenagers or as middle aged men.  Dumbledore, however, viewed his youth with shame and regret.  He preferred to look as he did as a wise and venerated old man, fighting against evil, before his final act of folly.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5345</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I disagree that our culture or our churches needs to embrace &quot;the physical&quot; or &quot;the body&quot; more than they have. I find it hard to imagine even that this is possible. And I&#039;ll leave it at that as we&#039;re already a long way from the subject of the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that our culture or our churches needs to embrace &#8220;the physical&#8221; or &#8220;the body&#8221; more than they have. I find it hard to imagine even that this is possible. And I&#8217;ll leave it at that as we&#8217;re already a long way from the subject of the post.</p>
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		<title>By: Arabella Figg</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5344</link>
		<dc:creator>Arabella Figg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5344</guid>
		<description>Another great post, John. Thank you for all this hard work.

You write: &quot;It is perhaps the signature irony and tragedy of our times that, focusing as we have on the physical sciences as our surest means to knowledge of what is most real, we have lost any profound understanding of what it means to be human, from our purpose and design down to knowledge about the most basic human needs.

I counter that, physical sciences be hanged, too much of Christendom focuses on &quot;our purpose and design&quot; but neglects to even ask and ponder the question &quot;what does it mean to be human?&quot;. In many spiritual circles our humanness/body is something to be despised, a mere jacket for the spirit, a despised material means to communicate with a material world, something regrettable to be gladly shed someday as the inconvenience and impediment to spiritual perfection they deem it.

God called his human creation--in full--good (with the addition of Eve, it was &quot;very good&quot;--hah!). And God acknowledged that even he could not fulfull all human requirement (&quot;it is not good for man to be alone&quot;). In calling his creation good, God meant all aspects of humanness, including the physical. For us to consider our physicality and its requirements/possibilities bad is to contradict him. Our sin-tainted bodies will be restored, not thrown away for something entirely other.

I first came upon the question, &quot;what does it mean to be human?&quot; several years ago in a book by author, sociology professor and progressive evangelical Tony Campolo. It struck me that I&#039;d never heard any Christian, clergy or lay, ask this question. Why? It became a huge part of my quest while reorienting my life during a turbulent time. That question and a new understanding of God&#039;s grace hugely impacted my spiritual growth, and I began to appreciate the body and humanness, and their beauty, needs and quirks, in a much deeper, more meaningful way. You could say I went beneath the surface meaning of physicality and human nature so neatly explained by many believers.

If we, as Christians, try to separate the two concepts in your paragraph, what hope has the rest of the world in grasping the interconnectedness in literature or anything eles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great post, John. Thank you for all this hard work.</p>
<p>You write: &#8220;It is perhaps the signature irony and tragedy of our times that, focusing as we have on the physical sciences as our surest means to knowledge of what is most real, we have lost any profound understanding of what it means to be human, from our purpose and design down to knowledge about the most basic human needs.</p>
<p>I counter that, physical sciences be hanged, too much of Christendom focuses on &#8220;our purpose and design&#8221; but neglects to even ask and ponder the question &#8220;what does it mean to be human?&#8221;. In many spiritual circles our humanness/body is something to be despised, a mere jacket for the spirit, a despised material means to communicate with a material world, something regrettable to be gladly shed someday as the inconvenience and impediment to spiritual perfection they deem it.</p>
<p>God called his human creation&#8211;in full&#8211;good (with the addition of Eve, it was &#8220;very good&#8221;&#8211;hah!). And God acknowledged that even he could not fulfull all human requirement (&#8220;it is not good for man to be alone&#8221;). In calling his creation good, God meant all aspects of humanness, including the physical. For us to consider our physicality and its requirements/possibilities bad is to contradict him. Our sin-tainted bodies will be restored, not thrown away for something entirely other.</p>
<p>I first came upon the question, &#8220;what does it mean to be human?&#8221; several years ago in a book by author, sociology professor and progressive evangelical Tony Campolo. It struck me that I&#8217;d never heard any Christian, clergy or lay, ask this question. Why? It became a huge part of my quest while reorienting my life during a turbulent time. That question and a new understanding of God&#8217;s grace hugely impacted my spiritual growth, and I began to appreciate the body and humanness, and their beauty, needs and quirks, in a much deeper, more meaningful way. You could say I went beneath the surface meaning of physicality and human nature so neatly explained by many believers.</p>
<p>If we, as Christians, try to separate the two concepts in your paragraph, what hope has the rest of the world in grasping the interconnectedness in literature or anything eles?</p>
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		<title>By: IstariErangua</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/on-critical-reception-of-harry-potter-and-twilight-part-7-what-the-critics-missed-a-surface/comment-page-1/#comment-5343</link>
		<dc:creator>IstariErangua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=755#comment-5343</guid>
		<description>John, just so you know, I was a doubter about the Twilight books for some time, but your eloquent defense of it (not for the sake of the writing style, which is what I&#039;ve heard the most complaints about) comparing it to my favorite boy wizard and his story, have led me to purchase the first book, and I&#039;ll let you know my specific thoughts once I&#039;ve finished it (read: probably next week, since I&#039;ll be reading it on a road trip this weekend).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, just so you know, I was a doubter about the Twilight books for some time, but your eloquent defense of it (not for the sake of the writing style, which is what I&#8217;ve heard the most complaints about) comparing it to my favorite boy wizard and his story, have led me to purchase the first book, and I&#8217;ll let you know my specific thoughts once I&#8217;ve finished it (read: probably next week, since I&#8217;ll be reading it on a road trip this weekend).</p>
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