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	<title>Comments on: Surprise! Lev Grossman loves Philip Pullman</title>
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	<description>Thoughts for the Serious Reader of Harry Potter</description>
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		<title>By: dnexon</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2946</link>
		<dc:creator>dnexon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think it would be an understatement to say that Pullman has not acquitted himself well in this whole mess of an attempt to strip the books of their theological content. But I don&#039;t think Pullman&#039;s apparent pretentiousness and slipperiness cut against His Dark Materials as  a terrific, if deeply flawed, series.

That being said, I wouldn&#039;t expect most Christians to find them anything other than offensive. While I think many of a theological bent find them fascinating precisely because Pullman&#039;s source material, and themes, are so much more explicit than you would normally find in young adult literature, that shouldn&#039;t translate into a claim that the books are really &quot;acceptable&quot; for most variants of Christianity.

But, that being said, I found C.S. Lewis&#039; Chronicles of Narnia offensive; as a young Jewish agnostic I felt terribly betrayed when, it finally dawned on me while reading the Last Battle, that I was being propagandized. Yet I still enjoy them, and intend to read them to my daughter. But that&#039;s because I find them both fun and interesting; I also find His Dark Materials fun and interesting.

A few points:

1) While the necessity of closing the portals between the parallel worlds does serve Pullman&#039;s message, it didn&#039;t strike me as inappropriate. The Republic of Heaven cannot be established. Asrial&#039;s vision is as flawed as that of the Authority he hopes to overcome. Indeed, it is ultimately his love for his daughter that redeems him, as it does Mrs. Coulter.  We sometimes have to accept painful sacrifices, but those should not preclude us from living our lives if we emerge alive. Etc.

2) The end is consistent with a major thematic found in fantasy literature and its cognates: that of the passing of magic from the world,. Indeed, in such literature we also find the notion that the disenchantment of the world, and/or the removal of god/the gods/demigods from active participation in our world is a necessary cost for humanity&#039;s self-determination. See Cooper, Alexander, Wagner, etc. Pullman&#039;s doing the same thing, which even has parallels some particular understandings of salvation through Christ and why no miracles should occur after the redemption of humanity.

(Recall why the Alethiometer is diminished: Dust no longer intervenes in the world as it must during the rebellion, and now Lyra, who has read it through an act of grace, must learn to read it through hard work, study, and intellect.)

3) I disagree about Lyra. She goes through a significant arc in the novels. She&#039;s an inveterate liar and general hooligan. By the end of the books, she&#039;s learned to be true to herself in multiple senses of the term. See the above comment as well.

4) For a really superlative reading of the relationship between His Dark Materials and Milton&#039;s epics, see Stephen Burt&#039;s chapter in MILTON IN POPULAR CULTURE.

Anyway, apologies for typos and semi-coherence. I really must get back to work :-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would be an understatement to say that Pullman has not acquitted himself well in this whole mess of an attempt to strip the books of their theological content. But I don&#8217;t think Pullman&#8217;s apparent pretentiousness and slipperiness cut against His Dark Materials as  a terrific, if deeply flawed, series.</p>
<p>That being said, I wouldn&#8217;t expect most Christians to find them anything other than offensive. While I think many of a theological bent find them fascinating precisely because Pullman&#8217;s source material, and themes, are so much more explicit than you would normally find in young adult literature, that shouldn&#8217;t translate into a claim that the books are really &#8220;acceptable&#8221; for most variants of Christianity.</p>
<p>But, that being said, I found C.S. Lewis&#8217; Chronicles of Narnia offensive; as a young Jewish agnostic I felt terribly betrayed when, it finally dawned on me while reading the Last Battle, that I was being propagandized. Yet I still enjoy them, and intend to read them to my daughter. But that&#8217;s because I find them both fun and interesting; I also find His Dark Materials fun and interesting.</p>
<p>A few points:</p>
<p>1) While the necessity of closing the portals between the parallel worlds does serve Pullman&#8217;s message, it didn&#8217;t strike me as inappropriate. The Republic of Heaven cannot be established. Asrial&#8217;s vision is as flawed as that of the Authority he hopes to overcome. Indeed, it is ultimately his love for his daughter that redeems him, as it does Mrs. Coulter.  We sometimes have to accept painful sacrifices, but those should not preclude us from living our lives if we emerge alive. Etc.</p>
<p>2) The end is consistent with a major thematic found in fantasy literature and its cognates: that of the passing of magic from the world,. Indeed, in such literature we also find the notion that the disenchantment of the world, and/or the removal of god/the gods/demigods from active participation in our world is a necessary cost for humanity&#8217;s self-determination. See Cooper, Alexander, Wagner, etc. Pullman&#8217;s doing the same thing, which even has parallels some particular understandings of salvation through Christ and why no miracles should occur after the redemption of humanity.</p>
<p>(Recall why the Alethiometer is diminished: Dust no longer intervenes in the world as it must during the rebellion, and now Lyra, who has read it through an act of grace, must learn to read it through hard work, study, and intellect.)</p>
<p>3) I disagree about Lyra. She goes through a significant arc in the novels. She&#8217;s an inveterate liar and general hooligan. By the end of the books, she&#8217;s learned to be true to herself in multiple senses of the term. See the above comment as well.</p>
<p>4) For a really superlative reading of the relationship between His Dark Materials and Milton&#8217;s epics, see Stephen Burt&#8217;s chapter in MILTON IN POPULAR CULTURE.</p>
<p>Anyway, apologies for typos and semi-coherence. I really must get back to work <img src='http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: cassiane</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2945</link>
		<dc:creator>cassiane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=258#comment-2945</guid>
		<description>I read the &quot;Catholic theologian&quot; article when it appeared in the Globe about two weeks ago. Well, I guess one can call oneself a theologian and still be theologically unsound.

I have read the first two books of the &quot;Dark Materials&quot; trilogy, and that was quite enough, thank you! I found the characters two-dimensional and not that attractive--a result of Pullman&#039;s atheism?

Anyway, I am not a careless reader, and I found that Freitas&#039;s article missed the mark. I took Pullman at face value--as attacking God as an authoritarian figure. This is the role of &quot;God&quot; in the books, and of course it constitutes a slander against god.Does anybody really believe that the True Christian God is a tyrant? What about the image of God in Man, what about free will? So on this count, Pullman is blaspheming.

Now, if Pullman&#039;s &quot;God&quot; is actually and angel, a demiurge, or a &quot;bad&quot; god, to be opposed by the &quot;good&quot; god of the dust, then P. has succumbed to the classic heresies of Gnosticism and /or Manicheianism. More blasphemy!

I interpreted &quot;dust&quot; as being acquired human experience, the building up of character through experimentation and the loss of innocence. (Well, don&#039;t worry, Mr. Pullman, you won&#039;t find a human being around who is primordially innocent!) I found Freitas&#039;s interpretation of &quot;dust&quot; as the Holy Spirit just &quot;off the wall.&quot; Furthermore, Sophia is not the feminine aspect of the third person of the Trinity. Quite to the contrary, Sophia or the Wisdom of God is identified with the second person of the Trinity, the Logos.

Pullman&#039;s books may be skillfully written, but give me Harry Potter any day.  Though some say the movie is supposed to be good, last week &quot;Mr. Moviephone&quot; on CNN said he was panning it, not because it was anti-religious, but because it was just bad!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the &#8220;Catholic theologian&#8221; article when it appeared in the Globe about two weeks ago. Well, I guess one can call oneself a theologian and still be theologically unsound.</p>
<p>I have read the first two books of the &#8220;Dark Materials&#8221; trilogy, and that was quite enough, thank you! I found the characters two-dimensional and not that attractive&#8211;a result of Pullman&#8217;s atheism?</p>
<p>Anyway, I am not a careless reader, and I found that Freitas&#8217;s article missed the mark. I took Pullman at face value&#8211;as attacking God as an authoritarian figure. This is the role of &#8220;God&#8221; in the books, and of course it constitutes a slander against god.Does anybody really believe that the True Christian God is a tyrant? What about the image of God in Man, what about free will? So on this count, Pullman is blaspheming.</p>
<p>Now, if Pullman&#8217;s &#8220;God&#8221; is actually and angel, a demiurge, or a &#8220;bad&#8221; god, to be opposed by the &#8220;good&#8221; god of the dust, then P. has succumbed to the classic heresies of Gnosticism and /or Manicheianism. More blasphemy!</p>
<p>I interpreted &#8220;dust&#8221; as being acquired human experience, the building up of character through experimentation and the loss of innocence. (Well, don&#8217;t worry, Mr. Pullman, you won&#8217;t find a human being around who is primordially innocent!) I found Freitas&#8217;s interpretation of &#8220;dust&#8221; as the Holy Spirit just &#8220;off the wall.&#8221; Furthermore, Sophia is not the feminine aspect of the third person of the Trinity. Quite to the contrary, Sophia or the Wisdom of God is identified with the second person of the Trinity, the Logos.</p>
<p>Pullman&#8217;s books may be skillfully written, but give me Harry Potter any day.  Though some say the movie is supposed to be good, last week &#8220;Mr. Moviephone&#8221; on CNN said he was panning it, not because it was anti-religious, but because it was just bad!</p>
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		<title>By: James P.</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2944</link>
		<dc:creator>James P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=258#comment-2944</guid>
		<description>Speaking of agendas, from the &quot;Catholic theologian&quot; article:

&quot;Dust also reflects strains in feminist theology that reframe the divine as feminine and hold that Christians&#039; relationship with the divine is mutual, not hierarchical: We make ourselves vulnerable to God as God makes God&#039;s self vulnerable to us. Many see this feminized God as a kind of heresy - a rejection literally embodied in the fact that women are forbidden to represent Jesus through the Catholic priesthood.&quot;

There is nothing in the Church hierarchy that excludes a mutual relationship with God. Individuals are encouraged to develop a personal relationship with God as well as worship with others as a community and members of the Body of Christ. Implying otherwise seems disingenuous and indicative of an agenda on the part of this essayist.

As for my opinion on Pullman&#039;s books, I&#039;ll first require a trip to the library to read them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of agendas, from the &#8220;Catholic theologian&#8221; article:</p>
<p>&#8220;Dust also reflects strains in feminist theology that reframe the divine as feminine and hold that Christians&#8217; relationship with the divine is mutual, not hierarchical: We make ourselves vulnerable to God as God makes God&#8217;s self vulnerable to us. Many see this feminized God as a kind of heresy &#8211; a rejection literally embodied in the fact that women are forbidden to represent Jesus through the Catholic priesthood.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is nothing in the Church hierarchy that excludes a mutual relationship with God. Individuals are encouraged to develop a personal relationship with God as well as worship with others as a community and members of the Body of Christ. Implying otherwise seems disingenuous and indicative of an agenda on the part of this essayist.</p>
<p>As for my opinion on Pullman&#8217;s books, I&#8217;ll first require a trip to the library to read them.</p>
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		<title>By: janet</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2943</link>
		<dc:creator>janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=258#comment-2943</guid>
		<description>Gee, Time Magazine presents Philip Pullman and &quot;His Dark Materials&quot; as an alternative to potential Person-of-the-Year J.K. Rowling.  Would that be the Time Magazine that&#039;s part of Time-Warner?  You know, the Time-Warner that owns Warner Bros., which owns as one of its subsidiaries New Line Pictures?  And wouldn&#039;t New Line Pictures be the producer/distributor of &quot;The Golden Compass&quot;?

What a surprise that they should publish this article the week the movie is released!

... By the way, &quot;Golden Compass&quot; originally had an anticipated opening weekend of $50 million.  Last week that estimate was drastically dropped to $32 million, which was widely considered a rank failure for a movie costing between $180 mil and $250 mil (depending on whom you listen to).

The movie actually opened at $26 mil.  There are rumors that the head of New Line will lose his job (i.e., not have his contract renewed next year) over this.  I think we can assume that the 2nd and 3rd books are unlikely to be filmed.  (Let&#039;s just hope the foreign box office is as bad as domestic.)

...We have an inner longing to hear stories that meet our inmost spiritual needs -- the need for heroes, the need for transcendance, the need for beauty, etc. -- Stories, as it were, that reflect in some way the Great Story.

So should we be surprised that the movie, which would seem to be the opposite of what we long for, tanked?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, Time Magazine presents Philip Pullman and &#8220;His Dark Materials&#8221; as an alternative to potential Person-of-the-Year J.K. Rowling.  Would that be the Time Magazine that&#8217;s part of Time-Warner?  You know, the Time-Warner that owns Warner Bros., which owns as one of its subsidiaries New Line Pictures?  And wouldn&#8217;t New Line Pictures be the producer/distributor of &#8220;The Golden Compass&#8221;?</p>
<p>What a surprise that they should publish this article the week the movie is released!</p>
<p>&#8230; By the way, &#8220;Golden Compass&#8221; originally had an anticipated opening weekend of $50 million.  Last week that estimate was drastically dropped to $32 million, which was widely considered a rank failure for a movie costing between $180 mil and $250 mil (depending on whom you listen to).</p>
<p>The movie actually opened at $26 mil.  There are rumors that the head of New Line will lose his job (i.e., not have his contract renewed next year) over this.  I think we can assume that the 2nd and 3rd books are unlikely to be filmed.  (Let&#8217;s just hope the foreign box office is as bad as domestic.)</p>
<p>&#8230;We have an inner longing to hear stories that meet our inmost spiritual needs &#8212; the need for heroes, the need for transcendance, the need for beauty, etc. &#8212; Stories, as it were, that reflect in some way the Great Story.</p>
<p>So should we be surprised that the movie, which would seem to be the opposite of what we long for, tanked?</p>
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		<title>By: TrudyK</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2942</link>
		<dc:creator>TrudyK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=258#comment-2942</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read the Pullman books, but my son did.  He enjoyed the story line, finding it fast-paced and engaging.  He also picked up on the theological points of the book (like the good TO -- Theologian&#039;s Offspring -- he is).  However,  to a large degree, he inverted things.  Somehow, he decided for himself that a lot of what Pullman presented as &quot;bad&quot; were things he saw as good and the &quot;good&quot; in the books were things that would be wrong.  He couldn&#039;t quite articulate it, but I do think he got Pullman&#039;s point about the death of God.

So Pullman is not so subtle that a rather intelligent, theologically aware 12-year old can&#039;t see his real meaning.  (Unfortunately, many adults are not nearly as solid in their theological understanding as my son already is.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read the Pullman books, but my son did.  He enjoyed the story line, finding it fast-paced and engaging.  He also picked up on the theological points of the book (like the good TO &#8212; Theologian&#8217;s Offspring &#8212; he is).  However,  to a large degree, he inverted things.  Somehow, he decided for himself that a lot of what Pullman presented as &#8220;bad&#8221; were things he saw as good and the &#8220;good&#8221; in the books were things that would be wrong.  He couldn&#8217;t quite articulate it, but I do think he got Pullman&#8217;s point about the death of God.</p>
<p>So Pullman is not so subtle that a rather intelligent, theologically aware 12-year old can&#8217;t see his real meaning.  (Unfortunately, many adults are not nearly as solid in their theological understanding as my son already is.)</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2941</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Okay, so it´s a little schadenfreud-ish of me, but:
http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN0835936220071209

&quot;Golden Compass Loses Its Way at the Box Office&quot;

It did about 25-30% of OOTP&#039;s opening weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so it´s a little schadenfreud-ish of me, but:<br />
<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN0835936220071209" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN0835936220071209</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Golden Compass Loses Its Way at the Box Office&#8221;</p>
<p>It did about 25-30% of OOTP&#8217;s opening weekend.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2940</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It seems that Mr. Pullman is trying to pull a &quot;Dan Brown&quot; move by stating in one interview, &quot; “but I wouldn’t want to be part of any movement that had an agenda. I’m not arguing a case. I’m not preaching a sermon. I’m not giving a lecture. I’m telling a story. Any position I take is that of a storyteller who says, Once upon a time, this happened.”
Then in another, &quot; Yet this is the same man who told the Washington Post in 2001 that the purpose of his writing was “to undermine the basis of Christian belief” and who agreed with David Frost during a 2003 BBC interview that if there were a God, it would be a good thing to rebel against him &quot;.
I can&#039;t believe that Mr. Pullman, like Mr. Brown would insult our intelligence with such contradictory statements. Remember Dan Brown when confronted about the backlash from the Catholic and Christian community during the release of the &quot; Da Vinci Code&quot;, stated that the book is &quot;fiction&quot; people! Then in the beginning of the book and in interviews comes the statement to the effect that the documents and materials used in his book are all historically accurate and based on FACT.
Then we find after some research that many of the &quot;documents&quot; that Mr. Brown used as proofs for his story were none other than fraudulent documents produced through one Pierre Plantard who was convicted by the French courts. Yet millions still accept Dan Brown&#039;s version of the church hiding the truth about Jesus Christ. I guess then we should not be too surprised that many will accept Philip Pullman&#039;s version of God and His church, even with his contradictory statements. It fulfills an &quot;agenda&quot; that Mr. Pullman states is not there!
John, this is why I have not read,&quot; His Dark Materials&quot; either. With Ms. Rowling, as you so clearly stated, she wrote the religious backround and symbolism within Harry Potter according to the realm of true English literature. Giving us a picture of her struggles and questions within her faith and authority inside the heart and soul of her characters not in a &quot;preachy&quot; sense of the work, but in a real life sense encased within a fantasy world. That what sets J K Rowling a &quot;world&quot; apart from Philip Pullman. Maybe not in prose, but in heart and soul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that Mr. Pullman is trying to pull a &#8220;Dan Brown&#8221; move by stating in one interview, &#8221; “but I wouldn’t want to be part of any movement that had an agenda. I’m not arguing a case. I’m not preaching a sermon. I’m not giving a lecture. I’m telling a story. Any position I take is that of a storyteller who says, Once upon a time, this happened.”<br />
Then in another, &#8221; Yet this is the same man who told the Washington Post in 2001 that the purpose of his writing was “to undermine the basis of Christian belief” and who agreed with David Frost during a 2003 BBC interview that if there were a God, it would be a good thing to rebel against him &#8220;.<br />
I can&#8217;t believe that Mr. Pullman, like Mr. Brown would insult our intelligence with such contradictory statements. Remember Dan Brown when confronted about the backlash from the Catholic and Christian community during the release of the &#8221; Da Vinci Code&#8221;, stated that the book is &#8220;fiction&#8221; people! Then in the beginning of the book and in interviews comes the statement to the effect that the documents and materials used in his book are all historically accurate and based on FACT.<br />
Then we find after some research that many of the &#8220;documents&#8221; that Mr. Brown used as proofs for his story were none other than fraudulent documents produced through one Pierre Plantard who was convicted by the French courts. Yet millions still accept Dan Brown&#8217;s version of the church hiding the truth about Jesus Christ. I guess then we should not be too surprised that many will accept Philip Pullman&#8217;s version of God and His church, even with his contradictory statements. It fulfills an &#8220;agenda&#8221; that Mr. Pullman states is not there!<br />
John, this is why I have not read,&#8221; His Dark Materials&#8221; either. With Ms. Rowling, as you so clearly stated, she wrote the religious backround and symbolism within Harry Potter according to the realm of true English literature. Giving us a picture of her struggles and questions within her faith and authority inside the heart and soul of her characters not in a &#8220;preachy&#8221; sense of the work, but in a real life sense encased within a fantasy world. That what sets J K Rowling a &#8220;world&#8221; apart from Philip Pullman. Maybe not in prose, but in heart and soul.</p>
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		<title>By: globalgirlk</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2939</link>
		<dc:creator>globalgirlk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 04:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=258#comment-2939</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t understand.  I recently, as in the last thirty minutes, returned from the movie theatre.  The movie the Golden Compass was not all that great and they leave out key plot points.  As for the article above, I am slightly confused about this woman&#039;s explanation.  Maybe I&#039;m considered narrow minded but I did not see anything similar to the god that she described in the books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t understand.  I recently, as in the last thirty minutes, returned from the movie theatre.  The movie the Golden Compass was not all that great and they leave out key plot points.  As for the article above, I am slightly confused about this woman&#8217;s explanation.  Maybe I&#8217;m considered narrow minded but I did not see anything similar to the god that she described in the books.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnABaptist</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2938</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnABaptist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Reading the article that John cites above, I was surprised (though perhaps I should not have been) to see her refer to &quot;...Lucifer&#039;s army of fallen angels...&quot; in the following paragraph:

&quot;The trilogy is a retelling of Milton&#039;s &quot;Paradise Lost,&quot; the classic epic poem from which Pullman borrowed a line, &quot;His Dark Materials.&quot; Milton tells of the battle between Lucifer&#039;s army of fallen angels and God&#039;s rule in heaven. In &quot;Paradise Lost,&quot; God prevails. But in Pullman&#039;s book, the two child protagonists help to defeat the rule of the Authority and the Authority dies.&quot;

I would have supposed a Professor of Theology at a major university who chose to cite Milton&#039;s Paradise Lost would have at least been aware that Milton identifies Lucifer as being the holder of the office of &quot;Light Bringer&quot; while he is in Heaven, but renames him Satan immediately upon his fall, and scrupulously avoids using the term Lucifer to refer to him thereafter (c.f. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/pl/book_10/index.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dartmouth Site.&lt;/a&gt; Check the footnote to Book 10 line [425].)   It is Satan, and not Lucifer, who commands an army of fallen angels in Milton&#039;s work.

But then, she seems to me to quote many of her other sources in a very loose fashion as well.  Is this perhaps the future of academia?  Redefine selective mis-quotations from Ancient Masterworks  to support the Politiosophical position du jour?  If so I&#039;m too old a dog to change.  I&#039;m going to keep barking in favor of accurate quotations and reasoned Philosophical discourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading the article that John cites above, I was surprised (though perhaps I should not have been) to see her refer to &#8220;&#8230;Lucifer&#8217;s army of fallen angels&#8230;&#8221; in the following paragraph:</p>
<p>&#8220;The trilogy is a retelling of Milton&#8217;s &#8220;Paradise Lost,&#8221; the classic epic poem from which Pullman borrowed a line, &#8220;His Dark Materials.&#8221; Milton tells of the battle between Lucifer&#8217;s army of fallen angels and God&#8217;s rule in heaven. In &#8220;Paradise Lost,&#8221; God prevails. But in Pullman&#8217;s book, the two child protagonists help to defeat the rule of the Authority and the Authority dies.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would have supposed a Professor of Theology at a major university who chose to cite Milton&#8217;s Paradise Lost would have at least been aware that Milton identifies Lucifer as being the holder of the office of &#8220;Light Bringer&#8221; while he is in Heaven, but renames him Satan immediately upon his fall, and scrupulously avoids using the term Lucifer to refer to him thereafter (c.f. The <a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/pl/book_10/index.shtml" rel="nofollow">Dartmouth Site.</a> Check the footnote to Book 10 line [425].)   It is Satan, and not Lucifer, who commands an army of fallen angels in Milton&#8217;s work.</p>
<p>But then, she seems to me to quote many of her other sources in a very loose fashion as well.  Is this perhaps the future of academia?  Redefine selective mis-quotations from Ancient Masterworks  to support the Politiosophical position du jour?  If so I&#8217;m too old a dog to change.  I&#8217;m going to keep barking in favor of accurate quotations and reasoned Philosophical discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: notsoruthless</title>
		<link>http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com/surprise-lev-grossman-loves-philip-pullman/comment-page-1/#comment-2937</link>
		<dc:creator>notsoruthless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 00:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=258#comment-2937</guid>
		<description>Hi!  This is my first post.  I read this blog and the comments quite often and have enjoyed it much.  I have recently finished Pullman&#039;s books and wanted to provide some additional thoughts.

First, I am a Christian myself, but I am not easily offended by those who find fault with Christianity or who hate the instutution of the church.  I think that many of their arguments are valid and come from the failings of the church and of Christians to live out the truth of their beliefs.  We are all imperfect, after all, and we present our theology through our own flawed filters.

With that said, I can see where Pullman is coming from.  He believes the church exists to keep people from truly living - through rules, through fear, and through manipulation.  In his story, God himself is not omnipotent but rather an evolved, power-hungry being who has taken over the universe(s).  His characters are on a mission not to kill a real God but a phony stand-in - there is no discussion beyond this imposter God about whether or not an actual God exists somewhere outside of the infinite universes in his story.  And I can see how easily someone could form a view of the church like Pullman&#039;s... all it would take would be one bad experience with one unbalanced Christian, who stressed fear and damnation and following the rules, and left out the part that above all, Christianity is about love and grace.

For Pullman, everything that makes you feel good is worth doing, and it is wrong to deny yourself these things.  He seems to believe that people are innately good, and if the church and its &quot;morals&quot; would just excuse itself and leave them to their own devices, the world would be a loving, magical, wonderful place.  It seems that Pullman doesn&#039;t understand the joy and love and ... life that can come from self-denial.  That dying to your desires and your wants could have any positive results.

I&#039;m glad I read these books if only for the following reason: they have opened my eyes to the fact that, as a Christian, I can do much, much more in my effort to show people what Christianity is truly about.  It&#039;s not just about rules and institutions and penance and guilt.  It is about freedom and love and redemption and hope and... true life.  God is not just a grumpy old fellow trying to keep us from having a good time.  He wants to help us experience true life and love in a greater capacity than we could ever do on our own, imperfect as we are.  This is an important part of the Christian message and reading these books has helped inspire me to shout it out a bit louder from now on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi!  This is my first post.  I read this blog and the comments quite often and have enjoyed it much.  I have recently finished Pullman&#8217;s books and wanted to provide some additional thoughts.</p>
<p>First, I am a Christian myself, but I am not easily offended by those who find fault with Christianity or who hate the instutution of the church.  I think that many of their arguments are valid and come from the failings of the church and of Christians to live out the truth of their beliefs.  We are all imperfect, after all, and we present our theology through our own flawed filters.</p>
<p>With that said, I can see where Pullman is coming from.  He believes the church exists to keep people from truly living &#8211; through rules, through fear, and through manipulation.  In his story, God himself is not omnipotent but rather an evolved, power-hungry being who has taken over the universe(s).  His characters are on a mission not to kill a real God but a phony stand-in &#8211; there is no discussion beyond this imposter God about whether or not an actual God exists somewhere outside of the infinite universes in his story.  And I can see how easily someone could form a view of the church like Pullman&#8217;s&#8230; all it would take would be one bad experience with one unbalanced Christian, who stressed fear and damnation and following the rules, and left out the part that above all, Christianity is about love and grace.</p>
<p>For Pullman, everything that makes you feel good is worth doing, and it is wrong to deny yourself these things.  He seems to believe that people are innately good, and if the church and its &#8220;morals&#8221; would just excuse itself and leave them to their own devices, the world would be a loving, magical, wonderful place.  It seems that Pullman doesn&#8217;t understand the joy and love and &#8230; life that can come from self-denial.  That dying to your desires and your wants could have any positive results.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad I read these books if only for the following reason: they have opened my eyes to the fact that, as a Christian, I can do much, much more in my effort to show people what Christianity is truly about.  It&#8217;s not just about rules and institutions and penance and guilt.  It is about freedom and love and redemption and hope and&#8230; true life.  God is not just a grumpy old fellow trying to keep us from having a good time.  He wants to help us experience true life and love in a greater capacity than we could ever do on our own, imperfect as we are.  This is an important part of the Christian message and reading these books has helped inspire me to shout it out a bit louder from now on.</p>
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